1. I read this, too, and got all worked up, and was ready to go mostly vegan. Couldn't get my husband on board, though.

And then I thought more about it, and decided to just stick with moderation. We limit meat and dairy (and only use eggs for baking, which isn't very often), but I can't imagine a life without cheese. Really, on a typical day, cheese is our main animal product, and I've been trying to limit it to one serving a day. (And maybe a teaspoon of butter in oatmeal, which I could probably cut out too.)

We go through phases of more - when traveling it's hard to find choices that don't have meat and/or dairy - but we keep it to a minimum.

And I believe that eating a varied diet with lots of fruits and vegetables is what is most important, and that if you keep it to a minimum with meat and dairy, the difference is probably pretty small. Telling people they can never have anything again - whether it's a cheeseburger, a chocolate bar, even a cigarette (if I told myself I could NEVER have another one I don't think I ever would have even been able to cut back, but saying an occasional cig is okay left me able to basically quit), is too restrictive and ineffective, imo.

But good luck! It's certainly better for your health and the planet to limit the consumption of animal products. Keep us posted!

Posted at 11:47AM on Jan 11th 2008 by Judy

2. Personally, I never trust "amazing data" that will change my life that has been published as a book. No matter how supposedly respected and intelligent the writer/researcher is.

Everyone has views that they will seek out supporting evidence for. How many diets have been out that were designed by someone famous and respected? More than could be counted.

I completely respect your decision change your diet, unless it`s something that is nutritionally dangerous. But I wouldn`t base that change on an "amazing book".

Personally, I do indeed think it`s at least partially bunk. Why? Because I have lived in Japan, eating an almost vegetarian diet. (well, maybe not quite that far, we do eat meat on occasion.) Red meat maybe once every 3 months, if that. Pork is maybe once every two weeks, and chicken maybe once a week. All free range, "organic" meat delivered to our door fresh from the farm. The rest of the time we eat just rice, vegetables and some fish every couple of days - all in small portions as I very rarely feel hungry.

And yet, despite 10 years of this supposedly wonderful diet, I am still overweight. The only fluctuation I had in my weight was when I had my son. It went down at first, shot up around 20 lbs, and then went back down to pre-pregnancy levels a month or so later. No particular effort on my part.
If I eat sweets, my weight goes up. If I don`t eat them, it doesn`t change. I`ve found a good balance of eating things that don`t send my weight up, and despite the fact that I`m not a model I`m happy at this weight point.

I have come to put a lot of faith in the genetic factors, as all the women in my family are around the same weight and build, regardless of their eating habits. My husband`s family (Japanese) on the other hand, eats more than 3 times the amount (of the exact same foods) I do, do less physically, but are as thin as rails. From the brief description, this study appears to be comparing races and genetic pools as much as it is diet.

Posted at 11:47AM on Jan 11th 2008 by Tamyu

3. And of course, it would just have to show up the second I repost. Having problems with the comment system today? I noticed this on some of the other blogs.

Posted at 11:53AM on Jan 11th 2008 by Tamyu

4. I apologize if this is a double post, I tried posting about 10 minutes ago, but it timed out and the comment never showed up)

Personally, I never trust "amazing data" that will change my life that has been published as a book. No matter how supposedly respected and intelligent the writer/researcher is.

Everyone has views that they will seek out supporting evidence for. How many diets have been out that were designed by someone famous and respected? More than could be counted.

I completely respect your decision change your diet, unless it`s something that is nutritionally dangerous. But I wouldn`t base that change on an "amazing book".

Personally, I do indeed think it`s at least partially bunk. Why? Because I have lived in Japan, eating an almost vegetarian diet. (well, maybe not quite that far, we do eat meat on occasion.) Red meat maybe once every 3 months, if that. Pork is maybe once every two weeks, and chicken maybe once a week. All free range, "organic" meat delivered to our door fresh from the farm. The rest of the time we eat just rice, vegetables and some fish every couple of days - all in small portions as I very rarely feel hungry.

And yet, despite 10 years of this supposedly wonderful diet, I am still overweight. The only fluctuation I had in my weight was when I had my son. It went down at first, shot up around 20 lbs, and then went back down to pre-pregnancy levels a month or so later. No particular effort on my part.
If I eat sweets, my weight goes up. If I don`t eat them, it doesn`t change. I`ve found a good balance of eating things that don`t send my weight up, and despite the fact that I`m not a model I`m happy at this weight point.

I have come to put a lot of faith in the genetic factors, as all the women in my family are around the same weight and build, regardless of their eating habits. My husband`s family (Japanese) on the other hand, eats more than 3 times the amount (of the exact same foods) I do, do less physically, but are as thin as rails. From the brief description, this study appears to be comparing races and genetic pools as much as it is diet.

Posted at 11:49AM on Jan 11th 2008 by Tamyu

5. I have not read the book and don't intend to, as I rarely read books about someone's ideas about diet. I read ongoing research results, observe trends I see around me, study ancient and tried-and-true beliefs from various cultures, and observe what works for me and my family.

It would take an awful lot to convince me that milk is unhealthy per se. It can be for some people, and some ethnic groups happen to include more milk-sensitive people than others (though this could be the result of other cultural food habits, such as eating spicy food or cutting out milk at an early age, rather than genetics). But I strongly believe that milk is a superfood, based on a considerable amount of data that I have gathered from the sources mentioned above.

Remember that there were decades when scientists and doctors taught mothers that breast milk was substandard - and in developing countries, many babies literally died as a result of marketing of forumula based on this erroneous information. That's an extreme example, but there are many similar ones. How long have they been trying to convince us that coffee is unhealthy per se? Only recently have the scientists started to catch up with what regular folks have known for hundreds, maybe thousands of years - it's very healthy for most people! Then there's alcohol - the current views range from "it's always bad" to "it's unhealthy to skip it." I will stick with a combination of "all things do in moderation" and what I've observed feels best to me.

Respecting meat, I believe it is healthy in moderation, but most Americans (and I mean the whole hemisphere) have a confused idea of what "moderation" is. On average, we eat multiple times what is healthy given our activity levels. I think more research and education is needed in this respect. A meat-free diet is also a valid choice, particularly when based on moral considerations. Definitely a meat-free diet can be healthy, but should only be undertaken by someone who is well-educated in vegetarian nutrition. (Education includes being brought up in a historically vegetarian culture - but if one switches his diet to more "modern" items, he needs to go back to the drawing board to figure out the right nutritional balance.)

Posted at 12:25PM on Jan 11th 2008 by SKL

6. We can't believe EVERYTHING we read. I'm sure there are some truths, but I like to hear both sides of the story. If my daughter's pediatrician says to give her milk, there must be SOMETHING good about it. I'm sure they have to learn about those sorts of things to recommend to parents. Besides, milk has been in this world's diet for HOW LONG? I think it's just fine. I bet it's better for us than all the soda out there, diet or not.

Posted at 1:33PM on Jan 11th 2008 by Marcia

7. The only choices you have to drink are milk or soda? Not juice, or water? Really?

Potato chips are better than nothing, but that doesn't mean I think I should eat them every day.

As for "pediatricians would not advise it if it weren't healthy", the truth is that a pediatrician is not a nutritionist, and that a pediatrician is not required to spend all his or her time reading up on nutrition and the recent studies, and that pediatricians give bad advice often. Just because an expert says something does not mean the advice is good - sometimes it is, sometimes it is not. That's why doctors give second opinions.

Posted at 2:19AM on Jan 12th 2008 by Uly

8. I think the idea that we aren't designed to consume dairy products is a no-brainer, based on simple logic, without the need of any book to tell me so.

We are designed to drink our mother's milk during the first few years of life and gradually be weaned off of it, never to eat dairy again. You know, just like every other mammal on the planet. What other animal needs to go to a different species, milk it, and derive various foods from that milk, in order to have all the nutrition it needs?

Still, I don't blame people for having trouble giving up cheese - especially since it's full of opiates like morphine and codeine, much more than milk alone.

Posted at 1:49PM on Jan 11th 2008 by Caelligh

9. I read this book over the summer, and it rocked my world, too. I was eating meat only very occasionally, like at holidays and such. But dairy---now that has been a staple. You know, grab a yogurt for a snack, put milk in the coffee or on oatmeal, eat grilled cheese or cheese enchiladas. But I cannot eat dairy now without feeling like I am poisoning myself. I really like Dr. Joel Fuhrman's approach to all of this (he uses the China Study to inform his patients). His approach is "Eat To Live," which is something I aspire towards.

Posted at 2:46PM on Jan 11th 2008 by Karen

10. I'm not sure how long milk has been a part of the diet, but it has not been a part of every culture's diet. There are still vast groups of people who cannot consume dairy. I think it could be argued that the guidelines for everyone to consume dairy are even a bit racist, considering how lactose intolerance is more likely in non-white, non-European groups.

And just because a pediatrician says to do something doesn't mean it's good, healthy or right. My ped acted like I was a freak when I was still breastfeeding at 9 months. My own doctor told me it was breastfeeding that was causing my PMS. I had a ped tell me I should leave a baby to CIO (that has nothing to do with medical advice and is none of the ped's business). So just because the ped says to give milk doesn't mean that it's the best thing for a child. There are lots of other sources of calcium and protein for a child.

Posted at 2:52PM on Jan 11th 2008 by Judy

11. Cheese is full of morphine and codeine? Absolute bunk, if you ask me. Yes, I've seen the "studies," and I don't believe that cheese is addictive.

While we are on the topic, maybe someone here who is so terribly anti-dairy and meat can explain the "French Paradox?" People in France have a very low incidence of coronary heart disease in spite of eating a diet full of yummy saturated fats (including lots of cheese).

Dairy is NOT poison, nor is meat. Not if you use a little bit of common sense and eat everything in moderation.

Posted at 3:34PM on Jan 11th 2008 by Jenn D

12. I don't think it's so counter-intuitive that a cow's milk would contain small amounts of opiates, as they produce a calming effect on the calf and help establish an emotional bond.

I can only venture a guess toward the French Paradox. Maybe they eat smaller portions, exercise more, or consume other things that counteract the ill effects of dairy products.

Posted at 5:10PM on Jan 11th 2008 by Caelligh

13. Many of the commenters seem to have the wrong idea about The China Study -- it presents decades of research with minimal bias. True, writers choose which research to publish, but this is in particular about one very important study, called the China Study.

My husband and I read it just before my son was born, and he became a vegan immediately. I've been mostly vegan, I aim more for under 10% animal protein. I found this surprisingly easy, given how much I love cheese and yogurt. I still have a bit of cheese every once in a while, especially when I eat out. And baking turned out to be really not a problem! Check out Vegan with a Vengeance for some fantastic recipes for entrees and desserts.

One funny thing about The China Study is the attitude of your friends and family. Some will read it with an open mind (and generally become vegan), some will refuse to read it because they know they are likely to agree but aren't ready to change, and others say they don't need to read it cause they don't care.

Best of luck, Kristin, on your decision to go vegan! Take it slow, trust your instincts, and enjoy all the delicious food you'll be discovering!

Posted at 7:16PM on Jan 11th 2008 by Tiffanie

14. The news that the Dairy Industry may have its own self-interests at heart is "startling"?

Sheesh. I've known that since I was a kid.

Posted at 7:59PM on Jan 11th 2008 by Uly

15. The China Study takes findings from rural China to support a new diet.

However (from unicef.com about nutrition defiency in children)...

"Many children and adults suffer from vitamin and mineral deficiencies and undernutrition, particularly in rural poor Western regions."

"Vitamin A deficiency, which increases child mortality and can cause blindness"

"Vitamin D deficiency has serious consequences, including increased incidence of rickets, osteoporosis, increased cancer rates, and autoimmune diseases."

Milk contains both Vitamin A and D, which could decrease the above diseases in children.

The author of The China Study is using research from a notriously nutrition deprieved part of the world to support a "healthy diet". And if milk is so bad, why do most mammals (including humans) produce milk to feed their young with milk in the crucial first months of growth?

I would remain wary until you find other research/reports done by reputable and accurate scientists backing The China Study's findings.

Posted at 10:54PM on Jan 11th 2008 by Kelsey

16. Since I drink about a quart of milk a day (not including other milk products), perhaps I should instruct my family and friends to include something on my gravestone to the effect that my life was cut short by milk poisoning. But the problem with that is that I'm so much healthier than just about anyone I know . . . so which of them is likely to outlive me? My daughters might - but then, I'm systematically poisoning them too, so who knows . . . .

Posted at 12:38AM on Jan 12th 2008 by SKL

17. 1) The Masai eat only blood, meat and milk and have no heart disease, overweight or even cellulite.

2) http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22116724

I just have to roll my eyes at everything having to do with the "science" of nutrition anymore.

Posted at 12:56AM on Jan 12th 2008 by Carrie

18. Kristin, I have an idea for a post, which is along the lines of what you have been thinking about lately. Q: what is a healthy vegetarian or vegan diet for a toddler - assuming that breast milk is not an option? I would really like to know but so far I have been too lazy to do the research. I suspect other readers may be in the same situation. Just a thought.

Posted at 1:25AM on Jan 12th 2008 by SKL

19. Uly, I wasn't implying that my pediatrician knows everything about nutrition, but honestly, find a pediatrician that says NOT to give post-breastfed/ post-formula babies/toddlers milk. That's what I was getting at. I was saying about sodas because most of the population here in the US drinks that, even if it's a diet soda.

I really don't think I'll be cutting out any dairy. We don't use a large portion as it is, but that's fine. I won't cut more out just because of one study.

"animal meat causes cancer" What DOESN'T show up in one report or another saying it causes cancer? Gum, additives to foods, additives in candy and drinks, mostly everything accept fresh non-pesticide fruits and vegetables.

Posted at 8:33AM on Jan 12th 2008 by Marcia

20. Like other commenters, I'm not into these type of books with 'amazing discoveries'.
While I respect anyone who's vegetarian, I do think man is to eat and digest animal products as well.

I'd like to point out that the two most important points: 1.)avoid dairy
2.)avoid meat
still do have a true meaning behind them.

1.) If this book is based on research carried out in rural China, the 'wtf' factor is quite explained by the fact that most Asian people have trouble digesting dairy products.

2.) as far as I know, mass production of animals involves feeding various antibiotics and hormones to confined animals who are kept in unnatural conditions.
Most American people have access to these type of meat, which is, for obvious reasons is highly unhealthy. If you wish to go on eating meat, choose organic. Did you know that animals are given growth hormones? If they eat it through their lifycycle, you are to get to eat those, too. Does it make sanse? Eat organic for your own sake. And don't feed your toddler with sh.t on the fake assumption that meat can still be good.
Meat is good, but not the one you usually buy. You do have to do some research to find a source that you trust. that you are 100% that is organic, or coming from a free range farm. And so on.

Hope I was of some help.

Posted at 10:53AM on Jan 12th 2008 by SzélsőFa